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Thread: A dead 380

  1. #21
    s311_bvm's Avatar
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    The 380 continues to stump me....

    Have found that if I have 12.59v or lower on the battery terminals it will crank but not fire. If I have 12.88v no problem at all it starts.

    Took the Marshall 650cca battery that was new in April this year into battery world to be tested. I was told “its a cracker” as on a load test at 10.5v it’s pumping out 800amp. Got it home from this test and no start at 12.59v, put it on the charger for just under 3 hours to get it to 12.88v and again it starts no problem.

    Checked the ECU with a scanner and no codes exist except for an occasional low voltage error. Not sure what to do next
    Proud owner of a Series III 380 SX, 1 of only 32044 380s made

  2. #22
    Magna diver's Avatar
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    I'd be checking for dirty/corroded multi pin connectors, multi pin connectors that may have a bad connection inside the plastic plug housing ie: pin has moved or is damaged, broken wire, bad earths etc on the engine bay wiring loom.


    Cheers
    04 TW series 2 Sedan - wrecked 2009
    03 TL AWD - donated to family member
    Current ride-2015 Grand Cherokee Laredo Wagon (VM A630 DOHC V6 3.0 diesel) - Quadralift air suspension/ ORA pack 2

  3. #23
    telpat16's Avatar
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    Especially in relation to crank angle sensor wiring!




    Quote Originally Posted by Magna diver View Post
    I'd be checking for dirty/corroded multi pin connectors, multi pin connectors that may have a bad connection inside the plastic plug housing ie: pin has moved or is damaged, broken wire, bad earths etc on the engine bay wiring loom.


    Cheers
    Terry M
    380 GT Series III Build 25874
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  4. #24

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    Hi s311,
    not exactly sure what post #21 is saying.
    1. where exactly are you measuring the battery voltage; at the battery terminals or at some part of the wiring loom
    2. during cranking, the battery voltage will generally fall.
    3. it is possible that there is a bad connection in either of the battery leads to the electrical system. Bad joints will lower the battery voltage seen at the electrical system.
    4. What does it mean;"no codes exist except for an occasional low voltage error."

  5. #25

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    A fully charged car battery (SLI battery!) in good condition (no sulphation!) has a SG of 1.260 and an open circuit voltage per cell of 1.260 + 0.845 = 2.105 volts /cell.
    That gives 12.63 volts for a car battery.
    Making due allowance for parasitic drain and SG loss by "aging", the 12.59 volts mentioned by the OP is perfectly normal.

    If the car cranks but doesn't fire with a good battery as indicated by the load test, I'd be looking for high resistance connections in the ignition/ECU system.

  6. #26

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    100% charge is 12.6 volts I agree. After charging the battery may well show 12.88 volts, but this won't be for long. Wait at least 2 hours after charging before testing voltage. I don't follow 650CCA Marshall battery, but mention is made of 800amps at 10.4 volts. It would be good to know CCA when starting the car. Please check out my post titled Scan Tool. I had intermittent starting problems. Each time the car would start if I floored accelerator and cranked motor. Perhaps flooring accelerator changes parameters. I never had to crank long with accelerator floored to get her to fire. I realised recently that the problem arose when battery probably was 'low'. Sometimes after car had been standing for a few days, once when car was started and driven short distance then would not start. Two weeks ago she started fine, I reversed out of garage, switched off and went into garage to fetch something (30 seconds) and got back in, cranked motor, which swung over fine, but engine sounded dead. Floored accelerator, cranked and she fired. That is when I started thinking battery good to swing motor, but earlier start had taken out some of the juice and not enough left for the electronic/ignition components to be happy. I started monitoring my battery compared to other cars and my battery each morning was a little lower on voltage and would drop off quicker. 4 lights on my smart charger equals charged and ready to go and I found other batteries (similar age and CCA rating) got to that stage real quick each time, but my battery took longer.
    Anyway I got my battery tested and it had 467 CCA (600CCA battery). I was told it was fine, but I replaced it. Code reader showed code P0339 Crankshaft position sensor A circuit intermittent. Google shows one cause of this is low battery. I have cancelled code, which has not come back. Interestingly spoke to someone today who had problem with an Aurion, sometimes revving at about 2000RPM on start up, new battery 6 months now and no problem.
    Sorry for long explanation, maybe your battery is the issue. A battery can show 12.6 volts but have little guts and little stamina. I am only surprised your car does not throw trouble code. High resistance could be the issue or battery that is weak. Best of luck.

  7. #27

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    Earlier in the post the OP mentioned that the battery was relatively new and was deemed fine on load testing (800 A at 10.5 volts).
    I don't know the rating of this battery, but at CCA it should hold a voltage higher than 14.0 volts during cranking the engine.
    If not I suspect the battery itself has an internal impedance issue.
    A sensible start would seem to be - try a decent battery (borrow/buy) - like a century yuasa lead calcium battery.

    The higher voltage with the battery coming off the charger is not relevant to the issue (even if it seems to be).
    Its just OC battery voltage plus extra voltage from surface charges that are not sustained on discharge (especially during cranking!).

  8. #28
    Administrator Madmagna's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by AQUAR View Post
    Earlier in the post the OP mentioned that the battery was relatively new and was deemed fine on load testing (800 A at 10.5 volts).
    I don't know the rating of this battery, but at CCA it should hold a voltage higher than 14.0 volts during cranking the engine.
    If not I suspect the battery itself has an internal impedance issue.
    A sensible start would seem to be - try a decent battery (borrow/buy) - like a century yuasa lead calcium battery.

    The higher voltage with the battery coming off the charger is not relevant to the issue (even if it seems to be).
    Its just OC battery voltage plus extra voltage from surface charges that are not sustained on discharge (especially during cranking!).
    Not correct sorry

    The CCA is based on how many amps at -18 degrees the battery can supply for 30 seconds while maintaining a voltage of 7.2v
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  9. #29

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    Thanks, that was a "sleepy issue moment" that I can't correct because I have no editing rights on my own entries (no value was intended to be put there!).

    My thought was on another parameter viz, the internal impedance of the battery.
    I was looking at a momentary discharge at the CCA value (instead of a 30 seconds sustained discharge as per CCA definition!).
    The initial voltage drop is mostly due to internal impedance (not resistance!) and it then reduces rapidly on a sustained discharge.
    This is due to the chemical reaction not keeping up with the energy demand (the sg at the active material drops and with it drops the plate voltage) and battery internal resistance "overtaking" impedance (won't bother with the theory behind that).

    The OP appears to be having some voltage issue that prevents ignition, and this might be explained by a battery with internal impedance or resistance issues. (busbar to grid connections, poor contact between grid and active material, irreversible sulphation etc etc).

    Anyway, my poor/unedited response was to provide some rational for the suggestion to try another known good battery.

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