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Thread: "Job Cuts"

  1. #21
    Banned Falcon Freak's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by wilsact
    NOT CORRECT. Mitsubishi Australia had a replacement model almost ready to go for the TJ Magna. Boulay was the head designer at the time for all of Mitsubishi's world wide design. He had the backing of Mitsubishi Japan, and over ruled Mitsubishi Australia's design, despite protests from local Mitsubishi Australia executives.
    Similar story to the AU Falcon. The locals who knew and understood the Australian market were overuled by their parent companies due to the 'head office always knows better' mentality. Ford and Mitsubishi had styling designs thrust upon them which neither of them wanted.

    FF

  2. #22
    Killbilly
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    Quote Originally Posted by Falcon Freak
    Not correct. MMC designed the Galant so it is their fault. MMAL did the best they could with limited resources to change the donor Galant to the 380. They had a budget of $600 million of which almost a third was spent on modifications to the Tonsley Park assembly plant. Therefore less than $500 million was spent on the Mitsubishi 380 project. Ford and Holden will spend inexcess of $1 billion each for their all new models.
    Yes I know that. They still have a crap car to sell and it doesnt sell...that was my point. I did say the wrong thing in my post, my bad.

    In the end...I see no reason for the Gov. to be forced to save a private company (this isnt directed solely at you FF mate). The reason people bought import cars is because what we have here must be boring! Obviously people are wanting something that isnt here, be it performance vs. price (very often the case with skylines and those other jap imports) or whatever.

  3. #23

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    Quote Originally Posted by Killbilly
    In the end...I see no reason for the Gov. to be forced to save a private company (this isnt directed solely at you FF mate).
    But this is. Correct me if im wrong FF but did Ford engine plant here in Geelong just receive 80 million to upgrade their production lines?

  4. #24
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    All car makers have the right to apply for government funding, all of the four (yes, even Toyota) get government funding on some projects.

  5. #25

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    Yes, it is true that a lot of industries (including all the car manufacturers) get gov't assistance in one form or another. However, that doesn't make it right

    The simple fact is that manufacturing (or any industry) will always go to the lowest cost base if it tries to compete solely on price. Therefore, we shouldn't try to compete on price, but on innovation and technology. Look at Germany. It doesn't sell the cheapest cars, but it does have an enviable reputation for technology and quality. Australia should stop subsidising it's car industry on the basis that cars made here are more "expensive" to produce. If the Falcon, Commodore, 380 or Camry were as good as a 5 series BMW, would Australian manufacturers be whinging about Chinese and Korean imports? No, we'd all be happy to pay an extra 20-30k over a Hyundai/Kia/whatever.

    Price is an excuse for a lack of innovation and poor build quality. I understand that cars have to be made to a price point, but that's no excuse for poor build quality. Ironically, Mitsubishi seems to have some of the best build quality...

  6. #26

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    Quote Originally Posted by Gekko
    Yes, it is true that a lot of industries (including all the car manufacturers) get gov't assistance in one form or another. However, that doesn't make it right

    The simple fact is that manufacturing (or any industry) will always go to the lowest cost base if it tries to compete solely on price. Therefore, we shouldn't try to compete on price, but on innovation and technology. Look at Germany. It doesn't sell the cheapest cars, but it does have an enviable reputation for technology and quality. Australia should stop subsidising it's car industry on the basis that cars made here are more "expensive" to produce. If the Falcon, Commodore, 380 or Camry were as good as a 5 series BMW, would Australian manufacturers be whinging about Chinese and Korean imports? No, we'd all be happy to pay an extra 20-30k over a Hyundai/Kia/whatever.

    Price is an excuse for a lack of innovation and poor build quality. I understand that cars have to be made to a price point, but that's no excuse for poor build quality. Ironically, Mitsubishi seems to have some of the best build quality...

    I don't think anyone would describe a 380, Falcon, Commodore, or Camry as poor quality.
    On a price basis they are amongst the best quality around.
    Since the easing of Tariffs all local manufacturers have lifted their quality substanially.
    The reason the government gives grants to local manufacturers is because they are so very important to the Australian economy. As someone else said it's not just the car manufacturer that will go under, the roll on effect would be devastating.....and the reason that the South Australian government sent the premier to Japan to lobby Mitsubishi motors not to pull out of Australia.
    High fuel prices have hurt the local industry, with small cars selling big.
    Lets hope the Aussie big car market recovers, do we really want imported big cars.....Ford Taurus anyone?

  7. #27

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    Quote Originally Posted by who9
    But this is. Correct me if im wrong FF but did Ford engine plant here in Geelong just receive 80 million to upgrade their production lines?
    That was Ford's money although Ford did get 20 mill or so to help develop cleaner engines. I believe that the other locals are all getting grants as well to improve efficiency.
    2005 BA Mk2 XR6 A4

  8. #28

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    Quote Originally Posted by wilsact
    I don't think anyone would describe a 380, Falcon, Commodore, or Camry as poor quality.
    On a price basis they are amongst the best quality around.
    Since the easing of Tariffs all local manufacturers have lifted their quality substanially.
    The reason the government gives grants to local manufacturers is because they are so very important to the Australian economy. As someone else said it's not just the car manufacturer that will go under, the roll on effect would be devastating.....and the reason that the South Australian government sent the premier to Japan to lobby Mitsubishi motors not to pull out of Australia.
    High fuel prices have hurt the local industry, with small cars selling big.
    Lets hope the Aussie big car market recovers, do we really want imported big cars.....Ford Taurus anyone?
    Yes, I agree that Australian car manufacturers have lifted their game quite a bit. The question we have to ask ourselves is whether it is enough. Also, if the car industry isn't building cars that Australians want, doesn't that tell you something about it's efficiency?

    The other point that should be made here is that there is a suggestion that governments should support Australian industry because otherwise it would result in a loss of jobs. However, ask yourself this question... where does the money come from? It comes from other Australians, either in the form of tax revenue, or indirectly through higher prices for goods. So really, what you're saying is that protecting industry is a nicer (and more acceptable) way of redistributing income, in lieu of paying people the dole. That works well in theory, but in practice it breeds inefficiency.

    Also, if the car industry suddenly starts making millions, do you think taxpayers will see that money again? No... it will go into the pockets of shareholders. If you want to support industry, why don't you get the gov't to loan companies money at low interest rates? Surely this is better than just giving it away. In that way, you're supporting industry, but also letting industry know that they're not getting a freebie.

  9. #29

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    Isn't a low interest loan still giving money away though?

  10. #30

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    It's sad to say but unless the Aussie car manufacturers start making cars people want, they will all end up in the same difficulties that Mitsubishi finds itself now. Geez even Ford in the US has had major financial problems because they have been building cars that the designers like but the public doesn't. The 380 may be a technological marvel but I guess nobody wants to buy one ( I have seen none in Perth). Why that is I don't know. Perhaps the marketing people should get out of the factories once in a while and actually ask the public what they want in a car.

    My next car will be a WRX ( I have a Ralliart Magna atm). None of the aussie car makers even have anything like this in their lineup so I am forced to buy from overseas.

    And BTW, tariffs don't work and never will. They are bad for the economy. Anyway unless Labor gets into power (highly unlikley) tariffs won't be increased. It's all up to the car manufacturers to start making a decent product and stop blaming the government, public etc.

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